Disciple Changes Thread

Irishman81

Balance Team
Balance Team
Reborn Staff
Didn't see a thread for disciple, so wanted to take the time here and write something up.

For starters, disciple has always been an extremely challenging class to balance throughout the years - at times being the most popular class on the server (haven/possibly aegis) and not having many bad matchups at all due to its mix of support/rogue playstyle. That being said, the current disciple on heroes reborn unfortunately falls flat in a lot of aspects besides being pretty good at interrupting a caster/healer, but not outputting much damage or healing as well as having low survivability vs dps classes with low armor/hp (barrier gives a brief reprieve from oppressive left click classes but not enough)

All that being said, here's what I propose for some QoL changes to disciple:

Remove Renewal

Add QuiveringPalm:
  • Strike your target with a quiveringpalm dealing 40 damage, interrupting any skills, nauseating the target, and causing them to take 8% more left click damage for 4 seconds
  • 15 second cooldown, 200 stamina cost
Fist of Jin:
  • Internal Cooldown Lowered from 1 second -> 0.5
  • Self healing lowered from 8 -> 3 per attack
  • Party Healing increased from 3 -> 6 per attack
Forcepull:
  • Lower range from 12 -> 10 blocks
  • Increase Cooldown from 10 ->12 seconds
  • Add slow on target forcepulled lasting 3 seconds (obviously only if you pull an enemy not an ally)
Forcepush:
  • Lower range of the skill from 6 -> 4 blocks
  • Increase horizontal power from 1.5 -> 2
Ironfist:
  • Increase damage from 10 -> 30
Chakra:
  • Increase range from 6 -> 8 blocks
  • Lower cooldown from 18 -> 16 seconds
Not sure how these will land, need some more testing, but its all I got for now. Rip it apart @Delfofthebla @werwew19 @balanceteam? @anyonewhocares
 

STDs4YouAnd4Me

New member
Here are my thoughts :

- Removing Renewal is the right move. It's a boring skill and won't be missed.

- Aside from adding an interrupt, there's nothing new about implementing Quivering Palm back into the game again. As stated in Discord, the nauseating effect is lackluster, doesn't get implemented fully until 4 seconds into the effect, and can be shut off using vanilla options, rendering the "CC" useless.

- Sure. I don't mind this Fist of Jin change. Since there's a lack of healers in Reborn it's probably important to give more group heal than self heal for Fist of Jin. For Fist of Jin to be used to it's full potential the Disciple constantly needs to be left clicking enemies while his group is nearby. Is that too much to ask from a leather class with only 1 active heal (Chakra)? Who knows. Let's find out.

- Forcepull changes. I like it. Disciple needs some sort of way to stick once it closes the gap. That can be done with either FlyingKick or Forcepull. Adding a slow effect to the enemy target who gets Forcepulled accomplishes this. Keep in mind that Forcepull also heals allies. It's situational but is nice to get a small heal when you're pulled out of a fight if you're getting low.

- I'd have to see in game the difference between 1.5 and 2 horizontal power on Forcepush. It could really be a hell of a boost to allies who are chasing the enemy or pushing an ally to safety. I was originally thinking of giving a forcepushed Ally a 1-2 second speed boost, but an increase push power probably does the job.

- Ironfist's damage was decreased to 10 because it received a buff to verticals distance power, giving additional Fall damage. However, using this skill on Beta against mobs gives a net of 13 damage, which is obviously awful. It would negate Fall Damage completely on Dragoons and Ninjas who have a passive Tumble as well. I think changing it to 30 damage and lowering the vertical power would give a more consistent damage output, since Feather Falling Boots would play a role in this as well.

- Chakra. I think Chakra is boring, but it needs an AOE heal, so sure, keep it. I've made it known that I want Chakra to be a dash where it heals allies it passes and harms enemies it passes, but everyone wants to ruin my boner.

As for additional thoughts :

- Safefall is lame. If Disciple had a worse version of Dragoon's passive Tumble that would be alright.

- Balance is a really difficult skill to use efficiently without Party Frames. It can win or lose teamfights depending on it's use. Not sure what else to say about it.

- I think FlyingKick should also work on allies. If the goal of the Disciple is to get into the middle of a fight and left click to sustain the group while using Chakra on cooldown, then it needs to 'get in there'. Since Renewal is getting removed, it might not be awful to give a heal to the ally as well? I don't know.
 
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