Irish's Week One Balance Megathread

Delfofthebla

Coding God
Coding Team
Scripting Team
Reborn Staff
Dragoon, I played it for a few days and it just felt weird. It's only use is for chasing people down or assisting peeling with tremor. If you increase its left click damage then it just becomes the class that kills whatever you want and then run away.
We could try to make some tweaks to make them more of a presence in an actual fight.
Maybe Rising Lance could be AoE, or tremor could be instant...
Dunno about either tbh but it's a thought.

Also can I get some genuine thoughts on Necro posted here. I've seen some suggestions in the discord that I like, but I would like to at least hear some thoughts form the rest of the team.
 
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Irishman81

Balance Team
Balance Team
Reborn Staff
We _could_ try to make some tweaks to make them more of a presence in an actual fight.
Maybe Rising Lance could be AoE, or tremor could be instant...
Dunno about either tbh but it's a thought.

Also can I get some genuine thoughts on Necro posted here. I've seen some suggestions in the discord that I like, but I would like to at least hear some thoughts form the rest of the team.
I can at least comment on goon. I think one route we could/should go is increasing the stamina cost of jump, making it a lot more difficult for the goon to just run away from fights, since I know that's a lot of the concern. I also would rather the class not get more aoe potential with tremor/risinglance, I just don't think thats how the class should be designed. Most of the problems come from increased mobility across the board diminishing dragoon's monopoly on mobility, which isn't the worst thing. The issue is that dragoon's damage is outclassed by several other classes, and has pretty high stamina costs for the damage it puts out.

Comparing Dragoon to enderbeast, enderbeast has 300 more health, higher armor, and with the passive of dual wield, not much lower left click -- in addition to it having mobility with lungingbite. I don't mind having that class like that, but the only reason why people, including me, are goon, is nostalgia from playing the class and it having jump. I'm a big fan of new impale, but it is definitely super situational -- I don't think I've gotten the stun off in world pvp, only arena's. Rising lance isn't bad, but with high stamina costs it seems very hard to justify using it unless you can get a good left click combo on the target.

Overall, I think a slight decrease in its offensive stamina costs, an increase in jump's stamina cost, and maybe a small left click damage increase would make the class feel a lot more playable.
 

werwew19

Moderator
Moderator
Coding Team
Scripting Team
Reborn Staff
I think it's time for me to start writing my own thoughts here for changes rather than just making them, and I'll be swapping off necro to avoid any "Delfmancer" comments, but I'll just say this. Necro feels very weak.

Nightmare and Famine feel like powerful tools.
When being attacked, BoneSpear is a decent defensive tool.
Plague, when you're lucky to get it off, definitely feels powerful.

However...
While their skeletons are difficult to kill in 1v1s, they die almost instantly in any teamfight. Without skeletons, the Necro's damage output is insanely low, and even with them, it can be on the lower side of things. Especially if compared to Arcanist, ChainWarden, or Hellspawn.

Plague cast range is really rough. It was reduced during the beta to prevent "kite and run" strategies, but ultimately, it's not feasible in teamfights. I can almost never get it off without putting myself in immense danger. I tend to do it anyways, but this typically draws focus from the other team, and due to necro's only mobility skill relying on

BoneSpear can knock people back during a chase which effectively makes them a hindrance to their team.
Summons block vanilla projectiles from allies (Arrows, Fireballs, ChaosOrbs) and it can be frustrating for the Necro's team.
The time it costs to summon all 3 skeletons is high (4.5 seconds of warmup + 16 seconds of cooldown time). When they die almost instantly, it can feel really bad.

Overall, I feel I missed the mark on the design as far as PvP is concerned, and there are _some_ things I can fix through code, but I'd love to hear everyone elses input on numbers that can be changed to improve the class feeling for other players
This might be a dangerous change but just a thought. What if the minion scaled based off of how many enemy players are in a specified range of the necro that could probably help them out extremely. I'm also with you and I think removing the knock back on bonespear would be good to make them more impactful in teamfights.
 

Delfofthebla

Coding God
Coding Team
Scripting Team
Reborn Staff
This might be a dangerous change but just a thought. What if the minion scaled based off of how many enemy players are in a specified range of the necro that could probably help them out extremely. I'm also with you and I think removing the knock back on bonespear would be good to make them more impactful in teamfights.
One issue with this I could see is that the mob's max HP is set when you summon them. Prepping before a fight is pretty huge due to how long it takes to summon all 3, and I could see that being frustrating when everyone is super spread out during a fight (since it would result in less max HP).

However you did give me an idea that should accomplish the same effect.

What if they took say, 40-60% less damage from AoE abilities?

Would be nice if seize flames gave a small fire resit and speed boost so accidently setting townies isn't aids when chasing people.
Yeah this sounds fine to me. You do it tho I dun wanna code it.
 

werwew19

Moderator
Moderator
Coding Team
Scripting Team
Reborn Staff
One issue with this I could see is that the mob's max HP is set when you summon them. Prepping before a fight is pretty huge due to how long it takes to summon all 3, and I could see that being frustrating when everyone is super spread out during a fight (since it would result in less max HP).

However you did give me an idea that should accomplish the same effect.

What if they took say, 40-60% less damage from AoE abilities?


Yeah this sounds fine to me. You do it tho I dun wanna code it.
I'm cool with that but I'm curious about how we would be able to identify AOE abilities for the damage reduction. What is classifying these abilities as AOE?
 

Delfofthebla

Coding God
Coding Team
Scripting Team
Reborn Staff
I'm cool with that but I'm curious about how we would be able to identify AOE abilities for the damage reduction. What is classifying these abilities as AOE?
The skills identify themselves as AoE or not in their skill types.
 

werwew19

Moderator
Moderator
Coding Team
Scripting Team
Reborn Staff
The skills identify themselves as AoE or not in their skill types.
We'll have to comb over the list of AOE skills then and make sure we're not missing some. GreatFireball is an example of one without the skilltype
 
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