State of the Meta (VOL. 1)

Giraffe

New member
So after playing yesterday I’m both excited and slightly worried. I like the complexity of the skills, I’m glad to see a lot of familiar ones and not too much diversion but there are two things that stand out to me.

Class Diversity and Identity:

This is something I’ve been critical of some of HC combat balancing in the past, but I take issue with some of the balancing around classes, the number of skills, and not enough frontloading. More specifically I feel like 1-3 skills can get easily be shaved off classes without much hurt towards overall combat complexity. I picked Dragoon yesterday and started playing only to stop multiple times to think “okay this class does blank” where I eventually came to something like displacement, disengagement, killing squishes, and mobility. This is fine in many aspects but my issue is that it’s not fine tuned enough for that class and others. Certain skills feel like they don’t need to be there, the ultimate which throws out the AoE in front which is slightly bugged (drops grass blocks) feels like a really unnecessary addition to the class, aswell with superjump, and even the skill that does flat damage and slows. I’d rather get rid of those and integrate them into the other skills, focus on what the class has in stuff like impale, tremor , spear, jump, leapingwhosamawhatsit then have those few IMO unnecessary skills. This is how I felt looking at a lot of others classes, like they should have a few less skills for sake of balance, simplicity and overall vision on what each class should be. As an Atherys player aswell as playing HC in a bunch of versions I really thoughts the identity of the classes was always a bit more polished but that HC had so much potential due to such a rich pool of skills and future development.

Meta Skewed:

So I’ve been told that the server will have some offset of Rogue like Ninja/Beguiler, but I will say it just Incase but at the current moment if people wanted to stack mages in certain 2,3,4,5vwhatever teamfights it could be extremely strong. Just looking at a class like Arcanist the damage output and potential from the left click passive alone had me surprised. I think looking at increasing Arcanists survivalbility (hp rebalance and blink) while taking away some of its power front loaded onto Bolt/Left Click with the possibility of removing Bolt and adding some power onto Chain lightening. Playing Dragoon to kill the Mages suffice to say wasn’t getting the job done exactly how I thought it should, however I think that it wasn’t completely terrible and there is room for a class to help go after backline in a healthy manner. Currently Mages along with an Enderbeast I feel is on the upper echelon of the Meta, provided you aren’t playing on the Arena which was basically a 25x12 room. That isn’t to say the other classes don’t have ability here or there to make a play.

Overall I had a good time but I think it if it was kept in mind that it might be better not to dumb down classes but create a more simple sense of identity and direction it could yield better balance, smoother gameplay and higher player retention.

In addition, I know you guys are trying to replicate X time in HC’s history I’m just stating my opinion on the PvP with a clean slate regardless of that. Wrote this on my phone if any grammar errors or cut corners, but I said I would write something so here it is.
 

werwew19

Moderator
Moderator
Coding Team
Scripting Team
Reborn Staff
To start, thanks for starting up a discussion on here! Let's get right into it.

Certain skills feel like they don’t need to be there, the ultimate which throws out the AoE in front which is slightly bugged (drops grass blocks) feels like a really unnecessary addition to the class, aswell with superjump, and even the skill that does flat damage and slows.
So to stop you there, superjump was probably the most sought after ability ever in herocraft and people love that shit and that's the main appeal to why a lot of people pick dragoon.

This is how I felt looking at a lot of others classes, like they should have a few less skills for sake of balance, simplicity and overall vision on what each class should be.
This I can maybe see on specific classes but overall I disagree here. When I check my keyboard layout with my keybindings it feels perfect and maybe I'm biased but with the few classes I've tested so far I never felt like I had too many abilities.

As an Atherys player aswell as playing HC in a bunch of versions I really thoughts the identity of the classes was always a bit more polished but that HC had so much potential due to such a rich pool of skills and future development.
While I agree the classes on HC were very polished. I question the "rich pool of skills" portion as a lot of the abilities were very basic and bland. (Kick, Bash, Spear, Blackjack, Pulse etc.)

So I’ve been told that the server will have some offset of Rogue like Ninja/Beguiler, but I will say it just Incase but at the current moment if people wanted to stack mages in certain 2,3,4,5vwhatever teamfights it could be extremely strong. Just looking at a class like Arcanist the damage output and potential from the left click passive alone had me surprised.
So class stacking was an issue on any heroes server and like a lot of it is actually probably just the nature of minecraft, the movement, the targeting systems etc. more so than numbers. However with healers and supports and especially with Enderbeast's AOE taunt I actually can see a group of casters getting fucked and not getting off as much damage as they do in 1v1's currently unless the team mistakenly ignores them.
I think looking at increasing Arcanists survivalbility (hp rebalance and blink) while taking away some of its power front loaded onto Bolt/Left Click with the possibility of removing Bolt and adding some power onto Chain lightening. Playing Dragoon to kill the Mages suffice to say wasn’t getting the job done exactly how I thought it should
This I can get behind but maybe we can compensate in other areas and I agree that the left click combo with Arcanist is very strong at the moment.

Currently Mages along with an Enderbeast I feel is on the upper echelon of the Meta, provided you aren’t playing on the Arena which was basically a 25x12 room. That isn’t to say the other classes don’t have ability here or there to make a play.
Yeah I saw mainly mages and Enderbeast winning duels yesterday and to reiterate this was a beta for feedback and the numbers are far from final.
 

Delfofthebla

Coding God
Coding Team
Scripting Team
Reborn Staff
Hey man thanks for the feedback, been hoping to see some action here on the forums.

To address some bigger points right off the bat:

1) The block spawning on DragonSmash / SeismicAssault has been fixed.
2) Arcanist has been getting tuned throughout the weekend. Many damage numbers and cooldowns have been tweaked.
3) Enderbeast has been getting some big tuning as well, with some more tweaks coming today.

Overall, the main goal of this test was to see exactly where the class balance was at and see what changes need to be made. The general consensus on those two classes was that they were very strong, and so thanks for helping bring that to our attention.

I hope to see some more fights tonight / tomorrow and see how far we have come. :)
 
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